thank you for this article, very informative and you have obviously spent ''due diligence'' researching.
i admit that i was a little put off by your first article: the hegemony of science is questionable: research is clearly political and often shaped by economics, and humans are undoubtedly adept at developing beneficial practices in the humblest of circumstances.
as someone who was raised in the country and has been preparing and consuming fermentations for most of my life, i truly believe that this proximity has encouraged in me an intuition that is very independant of the rigors of science.
You are most welcome. I posted a while ago about being caught between different ways of thinking when it comes to certain topics, and how it can be a challenge today, seemingly more than ever, to admit what we don't know. But I quite like it. Being at the forefront of something means discovering the limit, and what could be more exciting?
I don't favour either way when it comes to understanding fermentation. Equally, I've seen both companies trying to sell people 'gut friendly fermented snacks' without evidence to back their claims, as well as fermentation tutors making money off workshops that claim to heal all. It's a sorry state for fermentation, and something I think we need to defend against.
In the end, you can choose to follow your intuition, or you can keep up to date on the latest scientific discoveries. I say, why limit to just one? When both are capable of improving your practice?
I’ve seen a lot of articles from journalists recently about fermentation/UPF/microbiome which look like they have come from approximately 5 minutes research on google. I have enjoyed your articles which are well researched and thought through and discuss some of the things we aren’t so sure about. We should eat fermented foods because we like them first and after that hope they do us good.
I'm on the same page as you Nicola, and I can't help wonder why everyone is jumping on the bandwagon without thoroughly looking into the matter. Fermented foods are delicious, as are fresh, well grown, in season, and so on. I think we should be eating plenty of them all and I'm sure it'll be good for us.
Thank you very much for this work! It is now a common narrative to say that eating fermented foods is good for you by considering all microorganisms as probiotics. Fermented = healthy. As a biotechnologist and fermentation passionate i'm glad that such a well-known person in the environment is bringing forward a different narrative that is accurate and based on what we know to date from a scientific point of view. This is precious!
Thank you, I appreciate the support. I think I’ve stumbled into another topic I didn’t realise existed, namely, the clash between scientific thinking and those who scathingly dismiss it as reductionism. When I point out what is currently understood scientifically, I get shouted at by a small but vocal group accusing me of being reductionist, Western, or even a coloniser. Yet when I spoke about landrace seeds and preserving the genetic diversity of old crops, certain people from the ‘scientific’ community claimed I was going against science and clinging to prehistoric practices. There’s no winning, haha. Only now do I realise it’s just a form of tribal thinking with an ideological bent.
Sam, have you listened to zach Bush very recent interview with Dave asprey Human Upgrade podcast? Lots of gut biome talk - quite technical but really interesting and somewhat related to your post here.
I will check out your recommendation thank you. I don't usually listen to podcasts, instead I listen to audio recordings of books. But when a good one gets recommended I have to follow up!
Very interesting and it’s always enjoyable and informative! On the 1 star review. Remember it is one person compared to many, very high reviews and your book (which I have bought and am enjoying), is focussing on flavour. People who tend to write long negative reviews and add in a bit of big noting tend to be competitors or puffed up sorts who are overly critical of other’s views. However they do add a balance to the mix. All 5 stars with glorious storytelling may just be my uni students selling fake review packs to the business that sells the product, which is not something that you would do of course. They can more money than driving an Uber to survive during uni. Moral of the story is take all reviews with a common sense view and maybe a pinch of salt.
Thanks Margaret, I'm not upset by the 1 star, and it doesn't change my view that it's a good book that has helped thousands of people learn fermentation :) So far, the overly negative reivews I've had have come from someone who was jealous, someone else who was weirdly proud to be xenophobia against the Asian techniques in the book, and this person who lashed out because my newsletter dared to question the narrative around gut health. Regarding paying people for 5 star reviews, if only I had that kind of money haha. I can point to a handful of reviews by people I know, but the rest (from what I can tell) are genuine :)
Excellent read and fascinating history of food evolution. Id love to know the difference between fast and slow ferments on our guts. In compost making Ive heard the slow and wait method is better than the turning compost machine. Maybe? But how are ferments completed in say 10 hours better or worse than those that takes weeks or longer? Or do we benefit from the diversity again?
Yes Heide, that is fascinating. Especially considering extremely slow fermentation techniques and what they produce. I'll have to plan another newsletter exploring this further down the line.
Both newsletters interesting, informative and thoughtful. I’ve recently begun fermenting (water & milk kefir, sauerkraut and mugolio so far) and I’m loving it! Next step: buying your book :) Thanks so much for sharing your well researched ideas.
thank you for this article, very informative and you have obviously spent ''due diligence'' researching.
i admit that i was a little put off by your first article: the hegemony of science is questionable: research is clearly political and often shaped by economics, and humans are undoubtedly adept at developing beneficial practices in the humblest of circumstances.
as someone who was raised in the country and has been preparing and consuming fermentations for most of my life, i truly believe that this proximity has encouraged in me an intuition that is very independant of the rigors of science.
for anyone who might be interested, please read an article about the experiments of louis pasteur: https://viroliegy.com/2024/05/23/the-germ-hypothesis-part-1-pasteurs-problems/
and although unrelated to fermentation: paul feyerabend, 'against method'.
You are most welcome. I posted a while ago about being caught between different ways of thinking when it comes to certain topics, and how it can be a challenge today, seemingly more than ever, to admit what we don't know. But I quite like it. Being at the forefront of something means discovering the limit, and what could be more exciting?
I don't favour either way when it comes to understanding fermentation. Equally, I've seen both companies trying to sell people 'gut friendly fermented snacks' without evidence to back their claims, as well as fermentation tutors making money off workshops that claim to heal all. It's a sorry state for fermentation, and something I think we need to defend against.
In the end, you can choose to follow your intuition, or you can keep up to date on the latest scientific discoveries. I say, why limit to just one? When both are capable of improving your practice?
The post microbial effects are fascinating. Bravo for really thinking this through.
Thanks Jeff. I'm honestly fascinated by all this but also thrust into it by my line of work. So I'm happy to share as I learn.
I’ve seen a lot of articles from journalists recently about fermentation/UPF/microbiome which look like they have come from approximately 5 minutes research on google. I have enjoyed your articles which are well researched and thought through and discuss some of the things we aren’t so sure about. We should eat fermented foods because we like them first and after that hope they do us good.
I'm on the same page as you Nicola, and I can't help wonder why everyone is jumping on the bandwagon without thoroughly looking into the matter. Fermented foods are delicious, as are fresh, well grown, in season, and so on. I think we should be eating plenty of them all and I'm sure it'll be good for us.
Thank you very much for this work! It is now a common narrative to say that eating fermented foods is good for you by considering all microorganisms as probiotics. Fermented = healthy. As a biotechnologist and fermentation passionate i'm glad that such a well-known person in the environment is bringing forward a different narrative that is accurate and based on what we know to date from a scientific point of view. This is precious!
Thank you, I appreciate the support. I think I’ve stumbled into another topic I didn’t realise existed, namely, the clash between scientific thinking and those who scathingly dismiss it as reductionism. When I point out what is currently understood scientifically, I get shouted at by a small but vocal group accusing me of being reductionist, Western, or even a coloniser. Yet when I spoke about landrace seeds and preserving the genetic diversity of old crops, certain people from the ‘scientific’ community claimed I was going against science and clinging to prehistoric practices. There’s no winning, haha. Only now do I realise it’s just a form of tribal thinking with an ideological bent.
Sam, have you listened to zach Bush very recent interview with Dave asprey Human Upgrade podcast? Lots of gut biome talk - quite technical but really interesting and somewhat related to your post here.
I will check out your recommendation thank you. I don't usually listen to podcasts, instead I listen to audio recordings of books. But when a good one gets recommended I have to follow up!
Very interesting and it’s always enjoyable and informative! On the 1 star review. Remember it is one person compared to many, very high reviews and your book (which I have bought and am enjoying), is focussing on flavour. People who tend to write long negative reviews and add in a bit of big noting tend to be competitors or puffed up sorts who are overly critical of other’s views. However they do add a balance to the mix. All 5 stars with glorious storytelling may just be my uni students selling fake review packs to the business that sells the product, which is not something that you would do of course. They can more money than driving an Uber to survive during uni. Moral of the story is take all reviews with a common sense view and maybe a pinch of salt.
Thanks Margaret, I'm not upset by the 1 star, and it doesn't change my view that it's a good book that has helped thousands of people learn fermentation :) So far, the overly negative reivews I've had have come from someone who was jealous, someone else who was weirdly proud to be xenophobia against the Asian techniques in the book, and this person who lashed out because my newsletter dared to question the narrative around gut health. Regarding paying people for 5 star reviews, if only I had that kind of money haha. I can point to a handful of reviews by people I know, but the rest (from what I can tell) are genuine :)
Echos of Terence Mckennas stoned ape thesis - very informative thank you.
Excellent read and fascinating history of food evolution. Id love to know the difference between fast and slow ferments on our guts. In compost making Ive heard the slow and wait method is better than the turning compost machine. Maybe? But how are ferments completed in say 10 hours better or worse than those that takes weeks or longer? Or do we benefit from the diversity again?
Yes Heide, that is fascinating. Especially considering extremely slow fermentation techniques and what they produce. I'll have to plan another newsletter exploring this further down the line.
Both newsletters interesting, informative and thoughtful. I’ve recently begun fermenting (water & milk kefir, sauerkraut and mugolio so far) and I’m loving it! Next step: buying your book :) Thanks so much for sharing your well researched ideas.
Compost has a similar problem - not all are equal.